The ACLU of Kentucky's legal director, Corey Shapiro, spoke with LPM's Bill Burton about the lawsuit.
Bill Burton: The Louisville Metro Detention Center has seen 22 deaths, including many by suicide, since 2021. The "Inmate Observer Program" is designed, at least in part, to function as something of a suicide prevention effort. LMDC has not released the records that you've requested about the program, hence your lawsuit. So what are the specific records you're looking to get?
Corey Shapiro: So we're looking for policies about the program, training materials to get an understanding of what exactly is happening inside LMDC. And we have been faced with sort of an obstructionist view on these documents that are public records and that are being withheld on a variety of bases, and our contention is that we are entitled to these. These are public records, and we are now forced to seek relief from the court here in Jefferson County.
BB: The documents you're looking for are really just training documents that have been given to inmates. So why is it so difficult for you to get that?
CS: We don't understand that. It sort of defies logic that the public is not able to access the very documents that the people who are incarcerated and participating in this program would be able to access and are given as part of the program. And somehow there's a security risk because even though they've already given it to the very people who are there incarcerated. So it essentially defies logic why they're withholding these types of documents. And we're seeking the court to agree with us that this type of document should be disclosed to the public in light of that.
BB: Who has seen these documents?
CS: The court has the ability to review these documents. No one has actually seen these documents. The Attorney General's Office hasn't asked to review these documents, what's called in camera, without us looking at them, to sort of verify, at least look to see if these documents actually would be somehow a security threat if even part of them were to be disclosed. They have refused to disclose any of these documents. And it's a blanket withholding of these documents. We're asking for the court, even if there were to be, if the Court were to agree that there's some possibility of a security risk, at least consider whether some of these documents could be released. As opposed to just withholding every single page of these documents. So we're also hopeful that at least somebody can verify that these claims of the security threat are out there.
BB: What has led to you starting the investigation?
CS: Well, as you mentioned, you know, there have been 22 deaths at LMDC, which is just unacceptable. And you know, if there is a program that is designed to increase safety in this jail, we want to know about it. And we want to, you know if it's being used in the right way. We want to at least understand how it's being used and and to the extent there are experts out there who might have some ability in the community to suggest ways to improve that, or at least other ways that we can reduce the amount of suffering for people who are incarcerated pre trial especially. That's very important, and that's really important to the work that we're doing.
BB: That is the Legal Director of the ACLU of Kentucky. Corey Shapiro. Corey, it was a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much for making time for us today.
CS: You're welcome.
This transcript was edited for clarity
